harddisk "WDL-330P"

[Kristoff Bonne]

Gegroet,


I know this is a ps2-related NG but I have a problem with a old PS/1
system but I cannot find a NG stricklty related to PS/1 so I hope it is
not to off-topic here.



Anycase, here it comes.

I am in a computer here in Belgium and some time ago, somebody came up
with a bit tricky problem:

Somebody she knows has an old PS/1 computer which now has all kind of
problems. So he has bought a new computer but there is a some data on
the old computer which he would like to retrieve.


Now, one of the problems seams to be related to the floppy-disk
controller and as it turns out that there is no software on the computer
to the serial port, the idea is to take the disk out of the PS/1 and
install it on another computer.


Now, the harddisk is a 30 MB IBM WDL-330P, a model which is also used on
some PS/2 models. (this makes it at least a little bit ontopic here. :-))

Now, from what I can see, it uses a MCA disk-controller so just
stuffing it in a old computer will not work (unless it is a IBM offcourse).

Concerning, the disk itself, I have the impression it uses a 8 bit
IDE-interface. (correct ????)
So, does anybody know a way to connect this kind of disk to a "nowdays"
PC (althou a lot of people in the computerclub still have some older
computer somewhere at the attic).

How long was this kind of equipement still in use?







Cheerio! Kr. Bonne.

[w***@hotmail.com]

Hi!

Post by Kristoff Bonne
I know this is a ps2-related NG but I have a problem with a old PS/1
system but I cannot find a NG stricklty related to PS/1 so I hope it is
not to off-topic here.

Can you get the system's type/model number? It's a number (usually
paired with the serial number) that is printed in a format like
XXXX-YYY. Most of them you'll find it on the front of the computer in a
corner.

What operating system does the computer run? Does it have a floppy
drive?

If it is a DOS-based computer, I see nothing that would stop you from
using something like MS-DOS InterLink to connect the two machines over
a "straight through" wired parallel cable. You could then transfer the
files to a newer computer.

InterLink comes with DOS 6.2 (and possibly 6.0) but it should work fine
on any DOS 3.30 or newer.

William

[RickE]

Post by Kristoff Bonne
Now, the harddisk is a 30 MB IBM WDL-330P, a model which is also used on
some PS/2 models. (this makes it at least a little bit ontopic here. :-))
Concerning, the disk itself, I have the impression it uses a 8 bit
IDE-interface. (correct ????)

Sort of correct -- it is an 8-bit *almost* IDE interface, so it will
not attach to a standard IDE interface as would be found on some older
machines (80286 and higher). However, it will attach to either a PS/2
Model 25 or Model 30, in either the 8086 or 80286 models. If you can't
find an IBM type 8525 or 8530 machine locally, you could carefully
package the drive and ship it to myself or William or anyone else in
the group that has an 8525/8530, and we'd be happy to retrieve the data
and send it back in whatever form you'd like (.ZIP file on a CD, for
example). Obviously, in this case you'd have to pay for the return
shipping, or if you just want the data sent back over the Internet,
you'd only have to pay the one-way shipping if you did not want to pay
to have the drive returned.

There are also a few other IBM machine types that could read that
drive, but they would not be as common as the PS/2 Models 25 and 30 --
they are some of the "Point Of Sale" (cash register) terminals, which
would make the data extraction a bit more tricky.

Rick Ekblaw

[David L. Beem]

Hi Rick,

...However, it will attach to either a PS/2 Model 25 or
Model 30, in either the 8086 or 80286 models...

There will be some qualifiers there. Not the most common planar of the
8086-based Model 30, because it doesn't have the ability to run 30Mb drives.
But the 8086-based Model 25 can do it, as well as both types (since it is
the same planar) of the 286 version (but the 25SX is straight IDE).

...If you can't find an IBM type 8525 or 8530 machine
locally, you could carefully package the drive and ship
it to myself or William or anyone else in the group that
has an 8525/8530, and we'd be happy to retrieve the
data and send it back in whatever form you'd like
(.ZIP file on a CD, for example). Obviously, in this
case you'd have to pay for the return shipping, or if
you just want the data sent back over the Internet,
you'd only have to pay the one-way shipping if you
did not want to pay to have the drive returned...

I would be another person that could help....

There are also a few other IBM machine types that
could read that drive, but they would not be as
common as the PS/2 Models 25 and 30 -- they are
some of the "Point Of Sale" (cash register) terminals,
which would make the data extraction a bit more tricky.

For another avenue of thought, the two Reply replacement ("Power..." &
"Turbo...", just like the others) planars for the 8525 & 8530 (excluding the
8086 version) have the proprietary hard drive connection too (alongside IDE,
but probably sharing an IRQ as to not be used side-by-side in most cases). I
think the Genesis planar I got from Bill does too. Even though not needed
for simple copying, they have the ability to use much newer software tools.
David
***@IBMMuseum.com

[Kristoff Bonne]

David, Rick, William,

Post by David L. Beem

...If you can't find an IBM type 8525 or 8530 machine
locally, you could carefully package the drive and ship
it to myself or William or anyone else in the group that

(...)

Post by David L. Beem
I would be another person that could help....

Thanks for the info and your proposal, I'll pass it along to the owner
of the PS/1.


William,

There is another meeting of the computer-club tomorrow so I'll be able
to tell you the exact model of the computer, but from what I remember
(based on the pictures and information I found on the net) it is a 2011,
so one of the earliest versions of the PS/1.
http://www.system-cfg.com/pages/ibm_2011.html

the problem is that the floppy does not work anymore so we cannot
install interlink (or a terminal-program) on the box to use the serial
or parallel port of the computer. :-(

Post by David L. Beem
David

Cheerio! Kr. Bonne.

[Kristoff Bonne]

This post might be inappropriate. Click to display it.

[RickE]

Post by Kristoff Bonne
- When you start the box, it gives two errors: 161 and 163.
The latter one means that the RTC does not have a valid time, so that's
not that important, but the "161" indidicates a problem with the memory.

Actually, the "161" means "System options not set due to a dead
battery", so your first step will be to get a replacement battery. I
think that your machine has an 80286 processor, if so it probably looks
like the machine pictured here:
http://members.aol.com/suprdave/classiccmp/2011c34.htm

I don't remember too much about the early PS/1s, hopefully the battery
is a standard type and not one of the Dallas modules. Once you have a
good battery and run SETUP, you should be able to access the hard drive
(but I think that you need to get the floppy drive working to run
SETUP, as I believe that it is on a diskette).

Post by Kristoff Bonne
- The second problem is that the diskette is broken.
A "dir a:" does seams to work but when I try to do a "copy", it gives
I/O errors.
The connector on the PC is a 34 pins connector, so that's already a good
sign, but -on the other hand- the strange thing is that -on this floppy-
I do not see a power-connector.

Yes, the floppy is a PS/2-style with integrated power. Since a DIR
works, the drive rails are probably very dirty and thus the head
assembly is not moving back and forth freely. A good cleaning and a
little bit of lubrication may be all that is necessary to get the
floppy drive working properly. If you are unlucky, you will have one
or more bad capacitors that will need to be replaced, or you could
replace the floppy drive. Find the part number or FRU number of the
drive as you will want to get an exact replacement (there should be
label on the drive, usually on the top or side).

Rick Ekblaw

[Kristoff Bonne]

Rick, William, Louis,

Post by RickE
Actually, the "161" means "System options not set due to a dead
battery", so your first step will be to get a replacement battery. I
think that your machine has an 80286 processor, if so it probably looks
http://members.aol.com/suprdave/classiccmp/2011c34.htm

Yes, but it's the model with only a single (3.5 inch) diskette.

Post by RickE

Post by Kristoff Bonne
- The second problem is that the diskette is broken.
A "dir a:" does seams to work but when I try to do a "copy", it gives
I/O errors.
The connector on the PC is a 34 pins connector, so that's already a good
sign, but -on the other hand- the strange thing is that -on this floppy-
I do not see a power-connector.

Yes, the floppy is a PS/2-style with integrated power. Since a DIR
works, the drive rails are probably very dirty and thus the head
assembly is not moving back and forth freely. ...

Well, there was the other problem, in the sence that if I did a "format
a:", I got an error saying "invalid parameter" (strangly enough after
"enter a diskette and press enter").


But, as you indicated that the 161-error was concering the "system
options" and the "dir" does seams to work, I tried something else. Using
"pctools" (which was installed on the box), I found a tool called
"PCformat".
And, when I run that tool, it says the diskette is a 5.25 inch 360 K
drive (40 tracks, 9 sectors / track).

However, the "system configuration tool" does indicates it is a 3.5 inch
(1.4 MB) diskette-unit.

My guess is that there is a problem somewhere so that the system does
for some reason thinks it is a 40 tracks 5.25 floppy-drive and not a 3.5
diskette-drive.

My guess this is also related to the 161 error I get. So my best guess
-at this time- is to try to find and replace the battery.



BTW. Concerning the basic on it, when I fire up the basic-interpreter, I
get this:
The IBM Basic
Version A4.00 Copyright IBM Corp. 1981, 1988
60225 Bytes Free

I can do "save" and "load" of a simple basic-program, so it does seams
to be able to access the disk-drive.

So now I need to try to get hold of "IBM Personal Computer BASIC
reference" (as mentioned in the manual).

Is this available online or can somebody tell me
-> how to open and write to a file on disk
-> how to read from the com1: port (and configure the com1-port if
necessairy).

I started my computer-carreer with basic on my very first computer (a
tandy coco2) (somewhere around 1986); so I'm not that fluent in basic
anymore. :-)

Post by RickE
Rick Ekblaw

Cheerio! Kr. Bonne.

[Don Hills]

Post by Kristoff Bonne
Well, there was the other problem, in the sence that if I did a "format
a:", I got an error saying "invalid parameter" (strangly enough after
"enter a diskette and press enter").

If it'll do a DIR but gives an error when trying to read more of the
diskette, it may have a dirty or dead head 1 (heads are numbered 0 and 1).
Clean them with a strip of lain cardboard (business card will do) that has
been dampened (not dripping) with isopropyl alcohol. You can buy it in small
quantities at a pharmacist / chemist shop. Cassette tape or video tape head
cleaner liquid will also do.

Or, it may not be stepping up and down properly. Carefully move the head
assembly towards the centre spindle, then watch it carefully at power on. At
some point in the boot it will move out away from the spindle. It should do
so smoothly, though it may "judder" as it reaches the outside, because the
BIOS tries to step it the full 80 tracks to make sure it is at the outside
and if it gets there early it'll rattle agasint the stop. Clean the rails
that the haed assembly moves on, and lubricate them with a little light oil.
Do not drip it on, apply it with a cotton bud that has been dampened (not
soaked) with oil. Use "3 in 1" or "sewing machine" oil.

Post by Kristoff Bonne
My guess this is also related to the 161 error I get. So my best guess
-at this time- is to try to find and replace the battery.

Good plan.

Post by Kristoff Bonne
So now I need to try to get hold of "IBM Personal Computer BASIC
reference" (as mentioned in the manual).
Is this available online or can somebody tell me
-> how to open and write to a file on disk
-> how to read from the com1: port (and configure the com1-port if
necessairy).

I once wrote a program in BASIC that read and wrote to the serial port so I
could transfer some files from a PC (5.25 inch drive) to a PC-JX (3.5 inch
drive). From memory, it used the usual file open and read/write commands to
a file called "COM1". There was also a "Mode" command in BASIC to set up the
serial port baud rate etc.

I don't know of any IBM BASIC manuals online, but if you can find one for
MS-BASIC (not QBASIC) or, more likely, GWBASIC you will find it is
close enough for your needs. MS-BASIC and PC BASIC were almost identical,
and GWBASIC was a clone of MS-BASIC sold with clone machines.

[RickE]

Post by Kristoff Bonne
My guess is that there is a problem somewhere so that the system does
for some reason thinks it is a 40 tracks 5.25 floppy-drive and not a 3.5
diskette-drive.

Believe it or not, I actually think that this is good news, in that
there may be absolutely nothing wrong with the floppy drive, it simply
needs to be properly configured in the BIOS.

If so, the following should work:

- Create a bootable DOS diskette (PC-DOS 4.01 would be ideal, but I
imagine that any version you have available will be sufficient).

- Download http://www.nothingtodo.org/classiccmp/configur.exe and
http://www.nothingtodo.org/classiccmp/customiz.exe and add them to the
bootable diskette.

- Boot the diskette and run CONFIGUR, pick the right values and save
them out. Remove the diskette and reboot the system and see if it
works. You could then run CUSTOMIZ to pick the startup type you want
for the future.

I'm assuming that you've already taken care of the battery issue, if
not, these results will not survive an extended power off cycle. How
long is extended? That depends on exactly how "dead" the battery is
right now.

Rick Ekblaw

[Kristoff Bonne]

Rick, Jelte, David, William,

Post by RickE

Post by Kristoff Bonne
My guess is that there is a problem somewhere so that the system does
for some reason thinks it is a 40 tracks 5.25 floppy-drive and not a 3.5
diskette-drive.

Believe it or not, I actually think that this is good news, in that
there may be absolutely nothing wrong with the floppy drive, it simply
needs to be properly configured in the BIOS.
- Create a bootable DOS diskette (PC-DOS 4.01 would be ideal, but I
imagine that any version you have available will be sufficient).

Actually, this does not work. The reason is that the PC is configured to
boot from DOS.
There is a configuration-tool where you can change this, but -after a
reboot- it revert back to the "boot from DOS" mode.


I guess this is also stored (or, in my case, not stored) in a
BIOS-setting somewhere; so it is actually the same problem as for diskette.


And, even more, I actually think this would not have worked anyway, even
if I could have the PC boot from diskette.
The reason is that the OS bootstrapper (on the first couple of sectors
of the diskette) uses the BIOS to read from the diskette; and as it is
the bios (or the BIOS configuration-memory) who is the source of all
this, I guess this would have failed too.

Post by RickE
- Download http://www.nothingtodo.org/classiccmp/configur.exe and
http://www.nothingtodo.org/classiccmp/customiz.exe and add them to the
bootable diskette.

Well, you won't believe this, but after looking around a little bit; I
found out these programs are actually already on the computer.

They are actually in the C:\DOS directory and I had already used them
before. These are the "system-configuration tools" I mentioned before. :-)

But, ... (see below)

Post by RickE
- Boot the diskette and run CONFIGUR, pick the right values and save
them out. Remove the diskette and reboot the system and see if it
works. You could then run CUSTOMIZ to pick the startup type you want
for the future.

... the problem is ... this doesn't work. The changes are not saved, not
at all. Even without doing a reboot, the BIOS revert back to the default
settings.
My guess is that -either- the memory of the BIOS-configuration itself is
broken or -due to the dead battery- it shortcircuits the memory.

As the alt-control-delete does not work on this box, I even write a
small program via "debug" to reboot the machine (luckely I remembered
from my young years that just doing a "jmp ffff:0000" will reboot a PC
(*)). Otherwize, the only other option I had was to do a power-down,
power-up of the machine whis was not what I needed.


(*)
-> go to dos
-> do "debug"
-> type this:
a
jmp ffff:0000
<enter>
n reboot.com
r cx
5
w
-> this will write the 5 bytes of code (the assembled version of the
"jmp ffff:0000" onto a file called "reboot.com".
-> then just type "reboot" and voila!!! :-)



Anycase, the problem is still there, I am now able to change the
BIOS-settings, but -for some reason- the change is not saved.

Post by RickE
I'm assuming that you've already taken care of the battery issue, if
not, these results will not survive an extended power off cycle. How
long is extended? That depends on exactly how "dead" the battery is
right now.

Pretty much dead I guess.

Even more, it seams to have completely dissolved as I can not even find
it! (see my message to Jelte :-))


But ... now the good news.

While looking around on the harddisk, I found there actually already is
a program on the box that can use the serial-port. There is one in the
"pctools" pack which is already installed on the box.

So, I'll manufacter a null-modem cable tomorrow and give is a try via
that way. If this does not work (you never know what a half-broken BIOS
can do to a PC :-) ), my guess is that shipping it to one of you guys
will be my last option.
(but, as it not my box, that's something for the owner to do. :-))

Post by RickE
Rick Ekblaw

Cheerio! Kr. Bonne.

[Peter H. Wendt]

Hi !

Doesn't the 2011 have a 720KB FDD only ?
So it won't read nor format 1.44MB diskettes from "decent" machines.

[UZnal]

Hi Peter,

Post by Peter H. Wendt
Doesn't the 2011 have a 720KB FDD only ?

I pulled out the original "IBM PS/1: Fünf Minuten und Sie sind im Bilde"
prospect. Surprise, no model numbers there, only four models are described.
These were the very first PS/1, with DOS 4.01 in ROM, and I am not sure if
booting to DOS from a floppy was possible at all.

The FDD on all models is 1.44 MB:

1 - 512K, floppy, monochrome monitor
2 - 512K, floppy, color monitor
3 - 1M, 30M hard disk, monochrome monitor
4 - 1M, 30M hard disk, color monitor

Starting at about $1200, top model $2500, to quote the 1990 prices at the
current exchange rate.

Common features:

- 80286 10 Mhz
- 512K or 1M for models with hard disk
- VGA
- 1.44 MB diskette drive
- 30M hard disk
- Parallel, serial, mouse and keyboard interfaces
- VGA IBM Photo Graphic monitor with headphone and speaker sockets.
- IBM Selectric Touch 102-key keyboard

I bought the same keyboard from a sale during a computer exhibit, quite loud
but small and light. It belongs since to my test setup.

Software:

- IBM DOS 4.01
- MS Works 2.0
- PS/1 Tutorial
- BASIC

Options:

- 512K memory expansion card
- Second diskette drive, 3.5" 1.44M or 5.25" 360K or 1.2M
- 30M hard disk
- Expansion unit with three slots
- Color monitor
- Sound card and joystick

[Don Hills]

In article <44df0dca$0$15770$***@newsreader02.highway.telekom.at>,
"UZnal" <unalz-at-mail333-dot-com> wrote:
|
|I pulled out the original "IBM PS/1: Fünf Minuten und Sie sind im Bilde"
|prospect. Surprise, no model numbers there, only four models are described.
|These were the very first PS/1, with DOS 4.01 in ROM, and I am not sure if
|booting to DOS from a floppy was possible at all.

Certainly is possible, ditto for hard disk. There's an option for setting
the startup sequence and storing it in CMOS.

There are two memory expansion options, 512KB and 4(2?) MB. They are
proprietary cards that fit in a slot behind the front panel. I have quite a
lot of technical info from various sources, I really must get my pages up.
Less reading here, more writing.

|I bought the same keyboard from a sale during a computer exhibit, quite loud
|but small and light. It belongs since to my test setup.

They appear to be Model M mechanism in a smaller and lighter casing.

[UZnal]

Post by Don Hills
|These were the very first PS/1, with DOS 4.01 in ROM, and I am not sure if
|booting to DOS from a floppy was possible at all.
Certainly is possible, ditto for hard disk. There's an option for setting
the startup sequence and storing it in CMOS.

This slight doubt of mine dates from the days PS/1 came out and the dealer,
showing me the little cute machine, was excluding any external boot
possibility. Either the machine or the dealer was too new in business ...;)

Post by Don Hills
|I bought the same keyboard from a sale during a computer exhibit, quite loud
|but small and light. It belongs since to my test setup.
They appear to be Model M mechanism in a smaller and lighter casing.

It is exactly the size of the inner framed area of the original M, lower
keys, single key caps, fixed cable. Mine comes from the UK, manufactured
1990.

[Don Hills]

Post by UZnal
This slight doubt of mine dates from the days PS/1 came out and the dealer,
showing me the little cute machine, was excluding any external boot
possibility. Either the machine or the dealer was too new in business ...;)

In my experience, salepeople rarely know the capabilities of what they are
selling.

I had a PS/1 sound card in an 8530-286 at one time. PS/1 sound card uses an
IDE-style connector but is actually 8-bit ISA bus, designed to run at a 10
MHz bus clock. M30-286 is also 10 MHz bus, so I mounted the card on a PC
prototype card and plugged it in. The sound card was a prototype sent to me
from the lab, I used it in the M30 to write software for it before the PS/1
was released in NZ.

Post by UZnal
It is exactly the size of the inner framed area of the original M, lower
keys, single key caps, fixed cable. Mine comes from the UK, manufactured
1990.

I have several of them, obtained from recycling yards. Some later models of
PS/1 and Aptiva came with them. I bought a complete 486 DX4-100 Aptiva new
in box at auction and it came with such a keyboard. I mainly bought it
because it was a rare OS/2 Warp 3 - WIN3.1 dual boot preloaded system.

[David L. Beem]

Hi Don, Unal,

Post by Don Hills

[a particular PS/1 keyboard] is exactly the size of the inner
framed area of the original M, lower keys, single key caps,
fixed cable. Mine comes from the UK, manufactured 1990.

I have several of them, obtained from recycling yards. Some
later models of PS/1 and Aptiva came with them. I bought a
complete 486 DX4-100 Aptiva new in box at auction and it
came with such a keyboard...

Dunno if it has come up here before, but an area that discusses the
Model M types is http://s13.invisionfree.com/OneTrueKeyboard. They had a
thread going on about this PS/1 keyboard (I was lead in by searching the CPU
forum again that Daniel brought up). Glad discussion is still going on in
places, because I didn't even see a birthday message about the IBM PC on the
dead CSIPC newsgroup.
David
***@IBMMuseum.com

[JWR]

Hi Kristoff,

Post by Kristoff Bonne
Rick, William, Louis,

Post by RickE
Actually, the "161" means "System options not set due to a dead
battery", so your first step will be to get a replacement battery. I
think that your machine has an 80286 processor, if so it probably looks
http://members.aol.com/suprdave/classiccmp/2011c34.htm

Yes, but it's the model with only a single (3.5 inch) diskette.

Post by RickE

Post by Kristoff Bonne
- The second problem is that the diskette is broken.
A "dir a:" does seams to work but when I try to do a "copy", it gives
I/O errors.
The connector on the PC is a 34 pins connector, so that's already a good
sign, but -on the other hand- the strange thing is that -on this floppy-
I do not see a power-connector.

Yes, the floppy is a PS/2-style with integrated power. Since a DIR
works, the drive rails are probably very dirty and thus the head
assembly is not moving back and forth freely. ...

Well, there was the other problem, in the sence that if I did a "format
a:", I got an error saying "invalid parameter" (strangly enough after
"enter a diskette and press enter").
But, as you indicated that the 161-error was concering the "system
options" and the "dir" does seams to work, I tried something else. Using
"pctools" (which was installed on the box), I found a tool called
"PCformat".
And, when I run that tool, it says the diskette is a 5.25 inch 360 K
drive (40 tracks, 9 sectors / track).
However, the "system configuration tool" does indicates it is a 3.5 inch
(1.4 MB) diskette-unit.
My guess is that there is a problem somewhere so that the system does
for some reason thinks it is a 40 tracks 5.25 floppy-drive and not a 3.5
diskette-drive.
My guess this is also related to the 161 error I get. So my best guess
-at this time- is to try to find and replace the battery.

Correct.
This is due to the dead battery. Therefore the CMOS can't remember that this
system has a 3.5" drive. By lack of overriding parameter from the CMOS, the
system reverts to the (at the tinme) standard 5.25" drive-parameters.
So : fix the battery first. Then set the CMOS-values. Then all will be OK
(if the FD is technically OK).

Post by Kristoff Bonne
BTW. Concerning the basic on it, when I fire up the basic-interpreter, I
The IBM Basic
Version A4.00 Copyright IBM Corp. 1981, 1988
60225 Bytes Free
I can do "save" and "load" of a simple basic-program, so it does seams
to be able to access the disk-drive.
So now I need to try to get hold of "IBM Personal Computer BASIC
reference" (as mentioned in the manual).

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=9721265248

Funny, this one. It's called :
IBM PERSONAL COMPUTER HARDWARE REFERENCE
BASIC
by Microsoft Corp (!!)

Post by Kristoff Bonne
Is this available online or can somebody tell me
-> how to open and write to a file on disk
-> how to read from the com1: port (and configure the com1-port if
necessairy).
I started my computer-carreer with basic on my very first computer (a
tandy coco2) (somewhere around 1986); so I'm not that fluent in basic
anymore. :-)

Post by RickE
Rick Ekblaw

Cheerio! Kr. Bonne.

[Kristoff Bonne]

Jelte, David, Rick, William,


OK. Recuperating a PS/1, day ... three or four I guess.

Post by JWR

Post by Kristoff Bonne
But, as you indicated that the 161-error was concering the "system
options" and the "dir" does seams to work, I tried something else. Using
"pctools" (which was installed on the box), I found a tool called
"PCformat".
And, when I run that tool, it says the diskette is a 5.25 inch 360 K
drive (40 tracks, 9 sectors / track).
However, the "system configuration tool" does indicates it is a 3.5 inch
(1.4 MB) diskette-unit.
My guess is that there is a problem somewhere so that the system does
for some reason thinks it is a 40 tracks 5.25 floppy-drive and not a 3.5
diskette-drive.
My guess this is also related to the 161 error I get. So my best guess
-at this time- is to try to find and replace the battery.

Correct.
This is due to the dead battery. Therefore the CMOS can't remember that this
system has a 3.5" drive. By lack of overriding parameter from the CMOS, the
system reverts to the (at the tinme) standard 5.25" drive-parameters.
So : fix the battery first. Then set the CMOS-values. Then all will be OK
(if the FD is technically OK).

Well, that's turns out a bit more difficult then expected. Either I'm
going blind but I am sofar unable to locate the battery. I don't really
know how the batteries IBM used at that time look like, but took the
thing pretty much (more very carefully appart) but no luck.

Does anybody have a picture to give me a clue what I am looking for?
Rick mentioned a "dallas module". What is that?




Cheerio! Kr. Bonne.

[w***@hotmail.com]

Hi!

Post by Kristoff Bonne
Either I'm
going blind but I am sofar unable to locate the battery. I don't
really know how the batteries IBM used at that time look like,
but took the thing pretty much (more very carefully appart) but
no luck.
Does anybody have a picture to give me a clue what I am
looking for?

Yes, here are some likely candidates for the battery that is used:

http://www.tavi.co.uk/ps2pages/battery.html

Scroll down for pictures. Also, I drew up some planar outlines for PS/2
machines (from a similar timeframe as your PS/1) and will point out the
battery location on each one to you. Your PS/1 should use something
similar to one of these examples:

Loading Image...
(Louis Ohland did this outline.)

ZM35 is the location of a Dallas module on the PS/2 Model 25-286. Since
your PS/1 is also a 286, I'd reckon it uses one of these.

Loading Image...

See "battery" in the outline. This system uses a CR2032 coin cell in a
holder.

Post by Kristoff Bonne
Rick mentioned a "dallas module". What is that?

A "Dallas Module" is a self contained clock, NVRAM and battery
assembly. In reality, it is a molded together battery and DS1285
RTC/NVRAM chip. A picture of an alarm clock is printed on the top of
this module, and it's much taller than a standard IC.

Other companies made things of a similar nature...Benchmarq/Texas
Instruments, Odin and possibly a few others produced pin compatible
replacements.

I have a PS/1 286 that I think is the same as what you have, but it's
not convenient to get at right now. If you can't find the battery, I'll
try to have a look soon.

William

[Kristoff Bonne]

William,

Post by w***@hotmail.com

Post by Kristoff Bonne
Either I'm
going blind but I am sofar unable to locate the battery. I don't
really know how the batteries IBM used at that time look like,
but took the thing pretty much (more very carefully appart) but
no luck.
Does anybody have a picture to give me a clue what I am
looking for?

http://www.tavi.co.uk/ps2pages/battery.html

(...)

Post by w***@hotmail.com
ZM35 is the location of a Dallas module on the PS/2 Model 25-286. Since
your PS/1 is also a 286, I'd reckon it uses one of these.
I have a PS/1 286 that I think is the same as what you have, but it's
not convenient to get at right now. If you can't find the battery, I'll
try to have a look soon.

Yep. Found it. It's a DALLAS module indeed.
:-(


It is located in a corner well hidden below the metal frame on which the
HD is mounted.


But, the issue of the battery is not that important anymore. Using a
null-modem cable, I was actually able to get the required files from the
computer. (Appartently, the com-port does still work OK dispight the
problems with the BIOS)



But I must say I do am pretty impressed by this machine. It might be
something that is outdated now, for its ease of use it is a very good
machine. It switch it on and -as DOS and the other programs are in DOS-
5 seconds later your are ready start get started.
How long does it take for a new computer nowdays to even do that:
booting the OS, installing all kinds of additional software (anti-virus
software, anti-spyware software, getting an IP-address over the LAN,
check on the internet if there is nothing to upgrade).

I did see an ad for this PS/1 computer somewhere on a website from the
time it was sold and the ad said "install it and 5 minutes later you are
ready to use it". It does really do this.




Anycase, thanks everybody for the help! It was quite fun!

Post by w***@hotmail.com
William

Cheerio! Kr. Bonne.

[Horst Franke]

Yep. Found it. It's a DALLAS module indeed. :-(
But, the issue of the battery is not that important anymore. Using a
null-modem cable, I was actually able to get the required files from
the computer. (Appartently, the com-port does still work OK dispight
the problems with the BIOS)

Sorry Kristoff, but the 161, 163 have nothing to do with that!

I assume You have now replaced the battery - does the 161,163 still
appear? If Yes, then select BIOS and recreate Your settings.

The other problem was "access the diskette drive".
Has this also been solved after *cleaning* the drive?

And what now about the booting sequence?
If there's a 30MB drive, then the PS/1 should boot from that,
otherwise only from diskette if the disk was cleared.

Booting ROM Basic was the last alternative (on all IBM PCs).
Please restate Your current workings: Boot *ok* from diskette/disk?
There were still reports by 14.8.06 but no more action from You?
Please give Your final statement.
Horst

[w***@hotmail.com]

Hi!

Post by Kristoff Bonne
The latter one means that the RTC does not have a valid time, so that's
not that important, but the "161" indidicates a problem with the memory.
For, from what I see, it seams to work OK -in the sence that it does not
crash-.

The 161 actually indicates a problem with the non-volatile RAM that's a
part of the RTC. In this case they both have the same problem...the
battery has gone dead and neither time nor configuration may be stored
at this point.

Post by Kristoff Bonne
A "dir a:" does seams to work but when I try to do a "copy", it gives
I/O errors.

It could be dust in the drive...and no longer than it would take, a
quick shot of air into the drive would be a worthwhile thing to try.
Overall they are pretty reliable and have only a few breakdown
points--dust, gummed up grease, bad capacitors or a pad that sits on
the R/W head and eventually falls off.

Post by Kristoff Bonne
The connector on the PC is a 34 pins connector, so that's already
a good sign, but -on the other hand- the strange thing is that -on
this floppy-I do not see a power-connector.

There most likely isn't one. For a while IBM combined power with data
on the floppy cable. This was done throughout the entirety of the PS/2
model lineup, and was also found in some PS/1 machines. Plugging a
standard floppy in would probably lead to some smoke and damage.

I don't know what to tell you about programming the serial port from
BASIC. It could work, but if you are using the ROM-resident "cassette"
BASIC, I've heard that it can't access files from a disk.

If you'd like to carefully package the hard drive (and I do mean
carefully!) and ship it, I'd certainly help you get the data off of it.
Just let me know what kind of media you'd like to place the data on.
All you'd have to do is cover shipping costs, but that might be
prohibitive as I'm in the US.

William

[Louis Ohland]

Uh, didn't IBM stop having BASIC in ROM before then? Assuming the calls
to the cassette even work.

Post by w***@hotmail.com
I don't know what to tell you about programming the serial port from
BASIC. It could work, but if you are using the ROM-resident "cassette"
BASIC, I've heard that it can't access files from a disk.

[w***@hotmail.com]

Hi!

Post by Louis Ohland
Uh, didn't IBM stop having BASIC in ROM before then?

I don't think so. All of the PS/2 50, 55 60, 65, 70, and 80 have
it...and they would be from a similar timeframe as this PS/1 if memory
serves.

Post by Louis Ohland
Assuming the calls to the cassette even work.

They don't, if for no other reason than the PS/1 and PS/2 don't
actually have cassette interface hardware.

IBM's own manuals state that Cassette Basic isn't intended for any
productive use, as no work can be saved. They also say that you can't
get into it at all if you have a hard disk with an operating system on
it. (I suppose one could invoke the ROM BASIC from within DEBUG,
however.)

The original 5150 PC did have a cassette port (next to the keyboard
connector), but I've read somewhere that it was never fully implemented
and doesn't work.

William

[David L. Beem]

Hi William,

Post by w***@hotmail.com

Post by Louis Ohland
Uh, didn't IBM stop having BASIC in ROM before then?

I don't think so. All of the PS/2 50, 55 60, 65, 70, and 80
have it...and they would be from a similar timeframe as this
PS/1 if memory serves...

That is where http://www.IBMMuseum.com/Interrupts/INT15h/INT15h22.html
could help. Yeah, I know it needs to be populated from the template I put up
too long ago. I can't remember what the IBM insider (Tony? Rick?) said about
the rumor that Microsoft priced the DOS OS lower for having ROM BASIC from
Microsoft on the system (and I don't know how long that arrangement lasted).

Post by w***@hotmail.com

Post by Louis Ohland
Assuming the calls to the cassette even work.

They don't, if for no other reason than the PS/1 and
PS/2 don't actually have cassette interface hardware.

Only the PC did from the IBM line...

Post by w***@hotmail.com
IBM's own manuals state that Cassette Basic isn't intended
for any productive use, as no work can be saved. They also
say that you can't get into it at all if you have a hard disk with
an operating system on it. (I suppose one could invoke the
ROM BASIC from within DEBUG, however.)

You can save it to tape. Normally when Cassette BASIC (different from
using the IBM stub loaders BASIC or BASICA from the DOS commandline) is
activated it means there is no valid boot drive to work with. The stub
loaders do some minor work, but just call INT 18h to get ROM BASIC up.

Post by w***@hotmail.com
The original 5150 PC did have a cassette port (next to the
keyboard connector), but I've read somewhere that it was
never fully implemented and doesn't work.

It did fully work with a cassette drive (when have you known IBM to do
something half-assed?)...
David
***@IBMMuseum.com

[Don Hills]

Post by David L. Beem
Only the PC did from the IBM line...

... and PC-jr and PC-JX.

I have a couple of working 2011 PS/1 systems with hard disks, plus spare
parts, and one of the systems has the rare ISA expansion module. I need to
build some Web pages.

Post by David L. Beem
It did fully work with a cassette drive (when have you known IBM to do
something half-assed?)...

DOS 4.0? OS/2 2.0? <g> But the hardware usually worked, even if it took a
few ECs to get there.

[IBMMuseum]

Hi Don,

Post by Don Hills

Post by David L. Beem
Only the PC did from the IBM line...

... and PC-jr and PC-JX.

I had thought about the PC jr, but was away from mine at the time
of the post. Never would have thought of the Japanese model though. I
guess someone in Oz is more inclined to see one of those.

Post by Don Hills
I have a couple of working 2011 PS/1 systems with hard disks,
plus spare parts, and one of the systems has the rare ISA
expansion module. I need to build some Web pages.

That is the IBM models I have often overlooked here too...

Post by Don Hills

Post by David L. Beem
...It did fully work with a cassette drive (when have you known
IBM to do something half-assed?)...

DOS 4.0? OS/2 2.0? <g> But the hardware usually worked,
even if it took a few ECs to get there.

Point taken. But Microsoft was involved in there too. I won't
relate the cassette port story (between the same partners) here again
unless William asks.
David
***@IBMMuseum.com

[Peter H. Wendt]

Hi Kristoff !

To solve the 161 / 163 error you need to replace / substitute somehow
the RTC battery.

To bypass the dead FDD you might try using the old 3.0 Version of
LapLink, which has the ability to remote-load via a serial crosslink
cable from a second machine. However you need to have a running DOS on
that unit. But the PS/1 has a ROM-based DOS 4 as far as I know.

Mail me off the group if you need details and / or the LL3 executable.
It is rather small (92KB).

[John Hovious, MD]

I have an IBM PS/2 Model 30 with a 30 MB hard drive (WDL-330P), an internal
3 1/2 inch floppy drive (drive A), and an external 5 1/4 inch floppy drive.
I recently brought it from my father's house, where it hadn't been used in 9
or 10 years. When I started it, I got the 161 and 163 error messages, along
with the 603 error message, which means that there is an error with the
floppy drives. It then booted to drive C and DOS 4. The floppy drives are
non-functional, while the C drive seems to work well. I have installed a
new Dallas module, and it now keeps the date (but not the time), yet I still
get these error messages when I start it up. It looks like a problem with
the BIOS. The instruction manual says to set the BIOS by running the
startup disk from drive A, but drive A is not working. I tried running a
null-modem cable to a machine running Windows 98, but neither machine seemed
to sense the other.

Is there some way to reset the BIOS using just the keyboard and drive C? I
have a technical manual that gives the addresses for the bits that enable
the floppy drives, but I do not know how to check these addresses.

What am I doing wrong with the serial crosslink? I have a hard disk that I
removed from a 386 computer that has dos 5.0 and Windows 3.1. (All of my
other computers have Windows 95, Windows 98, or Windows XP). Should I boot
off of that disk? Or could the serial port on the PS/2 be nonfunctional
also?

[RickE]

Post by John Hovious, MD
or 10 years. When I started it, I got the 161 and 163 error messages, along
with the 603 error message, which means that there is an error with the
floppy drives. It then booted to drive C and DOS 4. The floppy drives are
non-functional, while the C drive seems to work well.

Remove the floppy drive from the machine, clean the heads with alcohol
and lubricate the rails for the head assembly. Put it back in and try
to boot from it a few times, you might get it working again.

Rick Ekblaw

[t***@gmail.com]

Post by John Hovious, MD
What am I doing wrong with the serial crosslink?

You need software to drive that. One that springs to my mind
is Norton Commander (you are likely to have it on one on your
old hard disks). The other side is windows 98 so that can be
booted to DOS from the startup menu and also run NC.

[w***@hotmail.com]

Hi!

Post by John Hovious, MD
Is there some way to reset the BIOS using just the keyboard
and drive C?

Yes, provided you have a copy of DEBUG handy on the boot drive. Since
it's been included with DOS from at least version 3.30, you should have
one. A Google search should with the terms "DEBUG", "CMOS reset" or
"CMOS clear" (no quotes) should turn up useful results.

You can use DEBUG to trash the contents of the CMOS RAM, effectively
resetting it. Beware, however--even on the Model 30 this could cancel
your ability to boot from the hard drive. Still, clearing the CMOS with
DEBUG is a good idea when you install a new Dallas chip in a PS/2.

I'm assuming (because of the mention of a Dallas module) that you have
a Model 30-286.

As for the floppy drive, I think that you'll find the heads are stuck
or the drive is dirty. You may also find that the drive is able to use
low density diskettes. If you can take it apart carefully and move the
leadscrew assembly driving the heads, you might be able to revive it.
Also look for dust balls, stuck grease or fallen off parts. Some drives
have a "pad" on the read/write head assembly that falls off and jams
the drive.

If the drive seems to be "OK", it could have an electronic problem of
some type. The capacitors on certain drives have been known to fail,
but this usually causes the POST to throw an error code. Try a low
density diskette. Sometimes an ailing or misconfigured drive will still
work with a low density diskette.

Post by John Hovious, MD
What am I doing wrong with the serial crosslink?

What are you trying to do with the serial link?

William

[John Hovious, MD]

I suspect that the problem with the floppy drives is in the BIOS. Neither
floppy drive makes any noise at all when I attempt to access them. The 1.44
mB drive lights up for about 15 seconds, but does nothing else. The
external floppy drive does nothing except to flash its light for about .1
sec when it is turned off.

I do have a Model 30-286. I found these instructions in the technical
manual for it:

RT/CMOS RAM Address Map

Address (hex) Function

000 - 00D Real Time Clock Information
00E Diagnostic Status Byte
00F Shut Down Status Byte
010 Diskette Drive Byte
011 Fixed-Disk Type Byte
012 Reserved
013 Reserved
014 Equipment Byte
015 - 016 Low and High Base Memory Bytes
017 - 018 Low and High Memory Expansion
Bytes
019 - 031 Reserved
032 - 033 Configuration CRC Bytes
034 - 036 Reserved
037 Date Century Byte
038 - 03F Reserved

When performing I/O operations to the RT/CMOS RAM addresses, interrupts
should be inhibited to avoid having interrupt routines change the CMOS
address register before data is read or written. Port hex 0070 should be
left to point to status register D of the RT/CMOS.

I/O operations to the RT/CMOS RAM addresses require the following sequence:
1. OUT to port hex 0070 with the RT/CMOS address to be written. (the
NMI mask bit also resides in port hex 0070)
2. JMP $ + 2 for I/O delay.
3. OUT to port hex 0071 with the data to be written.

Reading the RT/CMOS RAM requires the following sequence:
1. OUT to port hex 0070 with the CMOS to be read.
2. IN from port hex 0071, and the data read is returned in the AL
register.

Warning: When writing port hex 0070, a read to port hex 0071 must be
accessed immediately. Failure to do this can cause intermittent failures
and unfeliable operation of the RT/CMOS RAM.

The manual goes on to give the preferred settings for the 26 bytes of
modifiable information.

I would like to read from all of the non-reserved bytes in the RT/CMOS RAM
to see what corrections need to be made. However, I know almost nothing
about assembly language. I plan on creating a file on the c:\ root
directory named "Read" that would contain the following commands:
OUT 0070, 010
IN 0071

Does this look like this would read the diskette drive byte? How do I then
display the contents of the AL register on the screen? Do I have to do
anything else to inhibit the interrupts?

I would prefer to try to edit the RT/CMOS RAM first to keep from losing the
c-drive.

As far as the serial crosslink goes, I was trying to use it to copy the
contents of the C-Drive to another computer for archive purposes.

Post by w***@hotmail.com
Hi!

Post by John Hovious, MD
Is there some way to reset the BIOS using just the keyboard
and drive C?

Yes, provided you have a copy of DEBUG handy on the boot drive. Since
it's been included with DOS from at least version 3.30, you should have
one. A Google search should with the terms "DEBUG", "CMOS reset" or
"CMOS clear" (no quotes) should turn up useful results.
You can use DEBUG to trash the contents of the CMOS RAM, effectively
resetting it. Beware, however--even on the Model 30 this could cancel
your ability to boot from the hard drive. Still, clearing the CMOS with
DEBUG is a good idea when you install a new Dallas chip in a PS/2.
I'm assuming (because of the mention of a Dallas module) that you have
a Model 30-286.
As for the floppy drive, I think that you'll find the heads are stuck
or the drive is dirty. You may also find that the drive is able to use
low density diskettes. If you can take it apart carefully and move the
leadscrew assembly driving the heads, you might be able to revive it.
Also look for dust balls, stuck grease or fallen off parts. Some drives
have a "pad" on the read/write head assembly that falls off and jams
the drive.
If the drive seems to be "OK", it could have an electronic problem of
some type. The capacitors on certain drives have been known to fail,
but this usually causes the POST to throw an error code. Try a low
density diskette. Sometimes an ailing or misconfigured drive will still
work with a low density diskette.

Post by John Hovious, MD
What am I doing wrong with the serial crosslink?

What are you trying to do with the serial link?
William

[Louis Ohland]

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